19 Suspense Author Traci Hunter Abramson


NOTE: The transcription program had a difficult time separating our voices. Good luck!

Charity: , this is loose Leaf, a multi-author podcast journal, where we talk about goals, the ups and downs of writing and where we try to warn you off of our greatest pitfalls. We'll  keep it short because you don't have much  time and  we'd rather be writing. 

Hillary: Hi, I'm Hillary Sperry. I write sweet  romance and cozy mysteries and 

Charity: I'm charity bradford. I write contemporary romance and my fantasy tale couldn't be with us today, but we're so excited to have Tracy Hunter Abramson with us. She writes, would you classify them all as romantic or some of them are romantic suspense. 

Traci: Some of them are more thriller. Some of them are, and I do some that. Some people would call them sweet romance, but they really kind of lean toward a general fiction with the romance in it. So I'm kind of. I tend to write things that don't quite perfectly fit as genre.

Charity: Well, why don't you, uh, 

Hillary: introduce yourself to our listeners? Tell us a little bit about your background 

Traci: and how you got into writing. So, um, I live, I'm calling in today from Virginia. I've lived here since right after college. I graduated from BYU and then I was recruited by the central intelligence agency.

So that's where a lot of my ideas come from is having worked inside the halls of Langley, um, or the headquarters for CIA. So I worked there for a few years and then I decided that I'd really rather raise my own children and have somebody else do it for me. Okay. So I walk away from a career I loved and.

Did not know what to do with all this amazing free time. Like, I love my kids, but I'm going, you know, when you're used to like doing everything and working, you know, commuting an hour each way and being at least eight, nine hours at the office, you know, I, what do I do? So of course I always wanted to write, like, I always had these stories in my head that was not shut up.

So I finally gave in and said, all right, let me just start putting on paper. And it was pretty much a hobby. I was working with some young teenagers from church and realized that there was not a lot of fiction out there that was really appropriate for those kids who they were past the really cute little young adults, but they wanted adult content, but not adult content, you know?

So I was like, you know, if nobody else is going ride it. I was arrogant enough to think that I could, 

Charity: well, you've done really well. I know you 

Hillary: have at least 30 or more titles. Do you know what 

Charity: the head count is now? 

Traci: Um, well it can include my novela compilations. It's over 30. Um, I think, I think on the run, which is CA is coming out the ebook or just released, and then the paperback is just coming out.

Um, that I think is number 29 and full length novels supposed to have a cookbook out there, but then I have. Okay. That's where I started. Actually, my mom felt so bad that like every time I call her says, which recipe do you want today? Like, she never, never just called her mom. I love you. 

Charity: So I felt

Traci: guilty and I was like, mom, we should do this cookbook because then I'll call you 

Charity: like, for some other reason, but recipes.

So anyway, 

Traci: so we did that and I was writing for a newspaper and stuff just as a stringer and. And I was like, you know what? I can't, I fiction's my love, I can't do non-fiction fiction at the same time. So walked away from that and just started, you know, really working on the fiction. And I was fortunate that my sister-in-law, she is just one of those amazing people who was loved English, love reading, and had a very sweet, gentle way of.

Guiding me into going from a storyteller into an actual writer. Cause I, I was bad. You guys like it was really bad. So I've even told me what you, that I'm going to donate my ma my very first manuscript, 

Charity: because 

Traci: I was, I just recently rewritten it. And what was it originally? One novel is so far two novellas and two novels.

Oh, wow. Because I was just telling the story. I didn't like. I didn't have any skill. I didn't have a toolbox of writing, you know, ability. He would just go through and pick what my worst problem was at the time and say, well, you should work on this and I'd go through and fix it. And 

Charity: it 

Traci: took me seven years to get that first book written in a way that I was like, you know what, if nobody else likes it, I'm happy with this.

So that's where I, 

Charity: you said she helped you 

Hillary: to really kind of develop into a writer. Were there any other. Things that 

Traci: helped you build your toolbox, right? I was kind of in a unique situation because, because I used to work for the CIA. I have to send anything with any kind of intelligence in it, to the CIA before I can show it to anyone else.

Okay. So I couldn't be in like a critique group or you send pages to people. Like all of the things that are really helpful for new writers were things that I just simply didn't have access to. 

Charity: So I probably the 

Traci: biggest thing that I did for myself was I was at, I've always been an avid reader, just I would read and I'm reading over and over and over again.

And I didn't realize until much later that what I was doing is I was. I was really tearing apart what people would I like and other people's writing to try to figure out what their structure was and what tools they were using to make me have, you know, a re an emotional reaction as a reader. So that's really it.

A lot of it was self-taught. And then having that guidance of when I was trying to use these new tools, I was taking out on my own, you know, having my sister to, to help me kind of guide what was working, what wasn't. And then of course, I would read books on writing too, but. And I was a complete closet writer.

I mean like my husband did not even know. I wrote anything until. I sent in my first manuscript and said, all right, honey, I sent him my manuscript. He was like, what manuscript? 

Charity: No clue. 

Traci: Now, granted, I am former CIA. So if I need to keep a secret, know how to keep 

Charity: a secret,

Traci: but I didn't know it was quite that good until that moment.

So fantastic. No. You said that 

Hillary: having to keep everything quiet and figure it out on your own, is that something that you'd like to have to sign on your way out, that you won't do that you won't send you? 

Charity: Um, anything 

Traci: like that? So basically what happens is it's not even going out when you leave the CIA it's walking in.

So when you walk in and you sign a secrecy agreement, and I mean, when I was in, they actually will check everything you publish. Um, it doesn't, I mean, I could be writing an article on potato farming. Not that I know anything about it, but I. You know, had I tried, they'd be like, Oh, let's make sure there's nothing in here that would be, you know, potentially a threat to national security.

Nope. It was just a hobby. You knew it would have to go through them. Yeah. So it's, that's always been an issue in a rental. The first book I wrote was not suspense, um, is actually an Olympic story and, um, When I did that one, I was like, Oh, this is great. It won't, once I leave the CIA, it won't be a problem.

So I'd actually started working on it when I was still inside. And, um, and it just, it wasn't quite right. And I even sent it into my publisher. And after sending in the one that ultimately became my first novel undercurrent, when I sent that went in, I was like, you know, the skillset of my writing quality from one to the other is pretty significantly.

Different like, and so I actually called up having it and I said, can you send me that one back? I'm like, I really don't want you to move it forward. I, I think it needs too much work. And it literally has sat on my shelf since 2003. And so I finally, you know, got it, got it moving again. So in fact, my. The second one is, is currently in submission right now, but the other one will come out June of next year.

So I'm not, so yeah, really good to see it really becoming what it needs to be. Oh yeah. And you know, I have a lot, I mean, I'm sure you all know people that are in the same situation of, you know, I've got friends who I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed for my first book. I don't want anyone to read it.

I just want to find them all back and everything. And I've never felt that way. I mean, yeah. I can see the difference. Between where I started and where I am now, but I can still pull my first book off and start reading it and get totally sucked into my story. And still wonder, like how in the world did this ever happen?

Like what miracle occurred 

Charity: that these words. We're put together in 

Traci: a way that made sense, much less created a picture. You know, that's my kind 

Charity: of answers. One of the other 

Hillary: questions I was going to ask you, at least that feels like it does. I was going to ask if you thought being a writer was like curse 

Traci: or a gift, 

Charity: but that sounds like you definitely see it as a gift.


Traci: There's always that challenge of, you know, and I think people who don't write don't completely understand those of us who do, because our, our fictional world and our fictional characters are real. And so 

Charity: it's, 

Traci: you know, you wake up at four in the morning because one of your characters, like. You know what I'm going to do today, and you should write this down 

Charity: before you forget.

And I'm like, 

Traci: can I just please? And it's like, and you know, every time you think I'll remember, I'll remember by morning, you don't. And so then you spend the entire day 

Charity: trying to

Traci: recapture this one brief moment in your subconscious, you know, so, I mean, I normally 

Charity: keep, uh, you know, A 

Traci: keyboard or something by my desk so that I can just wake up long enough to roll over, type it, type it up, and then go back to bed, you know?

And then of course, 10 minutes later, it's like, Hey man, this is what's going to happen after that. So, you know, I usually, usually my climax is people will say that, you know, I kept him up. Late at night, you know, reading books and stuff, especially my suspense. And I'm like, Oh, trust me, you only had one night of lack of sleep.

The client X didn't write back fully. Like it was 

Charity: a week. No, not 

Traci: again. Oh, that's one of my favorite questions, actually the cursor again. Cause I think it's so, 

Charity: uh, the things that we 

Traci: pull from 

Hillary: our writing experience 

Traci: and it's almost always a little bit of both, one of 

Hillary: the things I thought, what was the toughest criticism that you've had so far?

I know you've had some real great support. Have you had any criticism? 

Traci: That's been a little bit hard, you know, I don't know that I I've been very fortunate. You know, I look at some authors out there who are amazing authors that just get slammed with, with some not great reviews and things like that. And I mean, honestly, one of my favorite.

Reviews ever. And it was, I think a one-star one or two star reviews, but it was awesome. I'm so bummed because it actually got taken down when they reset my book, but it was something along the lines of, you know, I like to have, I like blood and Gore in my violence and I like, I like 

Charity: more steam and, you know, Like 

Traci: basically more the, in the romance and all this stuff.

And I was like, and if I'm reading, going, yes, this is fantastic. If somebody wants what this guy wants, they 

Charity: shouldn't read my book. That's great. You know, but I was like, this is fantastic. If somebody was actually reading this review, looking for a bad review, if they're

Traci: looking for something that. You know is entertaining, but doesn't have to go down into that really graphic violence.

You know, I, I prefer to let people let their imaginations go as far as they're comfortable. Like, I don't like to, I don't like to watch it. So why would I want to describe it to somebody else? And so that review, I thought was the best. Cause I'm like, yeah, you know, it can be harsh and not really harsh, but I haven't like everyone's playing, we'll have some news like, Oh, some people are cliche or.

Whatever, but generally, like I even got, I got evaluations back yesterday. I'm on this one book and one of them was just glowing. Oh my gosh. I'd love to, that was so great. And the other one was just like, yeah, it wasn't really a fan all the way through. Like they just, it just didn't really connect to me.

And then even going through with that, they were making all these different points. And I, and I went back to my editor. I said, I'm going to wait on your opinion on this one, because. I can see a valid point and everything that they're pointing out, but some of these thinks are completely changing the dynamics of the book.

So we decide together how we want to move forward and what we want the end product to look like. I'm not going to just when we guess without my others opinions, I've been very fortunate because when I, at the time, it was really hard. When I first started, I actually had my first. Six books. I went to five different editors.

My first four books were all different editors. I fell until book five. I never even had a repeat editor and I promise it wasn't me. They were all leaving on their own accord, different thing to do with, with working with me. I promise that, um, you know, having gone through that with different people's styles of.

Critique and, and everything else. It really helped me learn how to take criticism even better than I think I already did. And so when you're doing that, it's like when somebody criticizes you it's, for me, it's always like even good reads. A lot of offers will avoid it. I'll scan through it on occasion more when I'm about to write another book in the same series, just to see if people had comments that.

I can learn from moving forward. So I said, I've been, I've been very blessed. I mean, I hope nobody listening thinks that's the reason they should go show me what it feels like to get slammed. But if you're just going to criticize, you want it to be constructive in a way that you can say, all right, this could have been better in this way.

You know, and most people have done exactly that. And that's

Charity: wonderful. That's, that's a very useful skill to develop, to be able to take a criticism and use it. To benefit 

Traci: your, your writing 

Hillary: going forward. Well, and I love that you went back to your editor with that and just kind of shows that relationship and how 

Traci: amazing it is to have a great team together.

That really, I did have a thought while you were talking. I was wondering 

Hillary: if I ever had to take anything out that caused any problems to a manuscript. 

Charity: Yeah. 

Traci: So it's very odd the first, so they've had different processes and in fact have even been part of their audit process because, um, 

Charity: I send in so 

Traci: much to them, but the first, the first time I received an email that basically said, um, to redact, like.

On this page on this, in this paragraph, on this line, delete words four through six or whatever. And so 

Charity: this was this cryptic way of 

Traci: saying, this is what you 

Charity: need to change. And I'm 

Traci: like, really like this stuff, not even asked if it's all, alright, I'm more than happy to do this, but can you explain why, what was the, what was the logic behind the, so I don't make the similar mistake again in a different way.

And they said, well, 'cause it was, it was information that 


Charity: the public you've seen hints 

Traci: of it in Hollywood and things like that. They said, well, we know that these things are out there, but by do putting it in your book, you're actually giving it credence. Like you're confirming that this is accurate.

And we, we, this is information. We can't have that confirmed. We want it, you know, there's, there's two different to many different versions out there. We don't want you to be specific. And people that know what's 

Charity: really going on. 

Traci: I was like, okay, I can understand that. And in all honesty, the, um, that the GI publication review board, they are extremely helpful.

I've even had in New York agent emailing me because they had an app, somebody going through that had a bench, that significant number of redactions. And they said, how do you deal with this? And this was somebody who was like, we had a mutual friend that that's how they'd gotten a hold of me. Perfect. You know, really is if your author goes forward with the understanding that they simply are trying to protect this country and they want them to be successful.

If you work with them as a team, they are so helpful. And so I've never had any problems. Like I haven't, I have had one of my fun moments since I've stressed stash. That somewhere is I have, um, I was sent it. This nice little let cover letter from the CIA. And it was even talking about like what their, um, their appeal process was and everything.

And it basically had, they given me a couple of pages of my manuscripts and I had, you know, those big black marks that you see on redacted documents. They've redacted my main script. Well, so that was their next version of sending things. To me, 

Charity: it's always 

Traci: like a little random things that I'm like, okay, what, you know, what is this?

And sometimes the things I think I'm going to get dinged on are not a problem at all, but you know, every once while I do, you know, I'm taking, it's been a lot of years since I've been in the agency and some taking what I know from 20 something years ago to, um, and then. Taking it forward to what I think they would do now with today's technology.

And so sometimes they get a little too close to home without meaning to, and sometimes I'm perfectly fine in whatever I'm using. They're like, yeah, whatever. So, like I said, they're very helpful and it's, it's rare for me to get a redaction it's only happened maybe three or four times, if that. Um, and usually it's, this is what we recommend you do, because we think this would keep your story intact without causing any major problems.

So they're like, they're awesome. I mean, I love these people, so I really enjoyed 

Hillary: your guardian series. I've been kind of following it and I wondered what you could tell us about your newest 

Traci: one. What are you excited about with that? So thank you, first of all, but this one I'm excited about because. I I originally was writing for my book Royal air.

I was writing that one when I went over to Europe. I guess it was two years ago now and it's, you know, Royal air was pretty much like Mediterranean, warm, you know, summertime, that kind of scenario. And here I'm like fall walking through with these gorgeous, the leaves, changing colors and all this kind of stuff in Europe.

And I was going through, like I went into, um, I flew into Copenhagen. I spent a day in mama's Sweden, and then I, I actually popped into Paris to visit my daughter for a day. But then I went through the Baltic States. So I went to fluent into Vilnius Lithuania, and then took the bus over to Riga Latvia. And then I.

I think I flew from Riga over to, um, to the Sonia, into, um, TALEN. And then from there, I actually took the theory across the Baltic sea to Helsinki, where I met up with Sarah Eden and a net lion and Jeanette Rollison. So I get as far as Riga and I'm like, I can't do this anymore. Like I'm trying to sleep at night, you know, like, let me get a few words down or whatever.

And I get this story in my head. I'm like, Oh, this is what I need to do. So I just start writing this book. So I completely set my Royal one aside and started writing this book that was set in this part of Europe in the fall. And, you know, kind of enjoy the, the colors and everything else. You know, as I was writing a lot of, one of the things that I do when I travel is I.

I try to always, if, if possible, I try to go into a city one way and leave a different way. So like my first time to go into Paris, I came in by train on one of their local trains from Amsterdam, and then I flew from Paris to London or something. So I'll always try to go in different ways because I like to travel more with the way the locals do.

And one of the. One of my ways like being former CIA, you don't really want to be noticed as an American. It's just better not to. So my way of dealing with that is I just try to blend in to the point that, um, like w last time I was in Paris, I had two different people ask me at the airport. Um, if they were on the right train, You know, and like one of them was some more say like it was, so I had the same thing happened, um, going from Sweden, into Copenhagen of somebody asking me if you know, in a different language.

And I'm like, I have no idea what you're saying, but I mean, sometimes I can kind of figure it out. But 

Charity: anyway, it's just, it's comical that generally people don't 

Traci: know that I'm, you know, that I'm not American when I'm traveling, especially. And that's what I love to do some travel on my own. I traveled by myself a lot of times, so that.

I am sure what the locals are doing rather than seeing a bunch of touristy stuff. So that's, that was one of the things I love about this book for on the run is a lot of the things I did ended up being in the book, like, you know, my theory rides between Talon and in Helsinki was on there. Just, you know, you're 

Charity: breathing.


Traci: so gorgeous over there during the fall until a lot of that, you know, I didn't, wasn't able to bring in as much as I want, because it was such a race, but even to the point of 

Charity: like, there was this guy that. 

Traci: And wisely decided he was going to try to escort me to my hotel and was like, Oh, you can just come stay with me.

You don't need a hotel and dah, dah, dah. And like, he was trying to take my phone to give me his number and all this stuff. And so that turned into a little incidents, you know, in my book that, that, you know, cause I have to use what you, what you know, so anyway, you know, it was just little things that were fun.

So I had a lot of, I always loved, like, I love you from places I then, but. When I'm writing, I don't want to use so much of the setting that everyone, like, they lost the point of the story. Right. So I'm hoping that it was, I think it was a pretty good balance of, you know, being able to take some of the things that I really enjoyed about that part of the world.

And then also take some of the, you know, Oh my gosh, somebody trying to steal something from me, probably, you know, what can I do? Right. So anyway, 

Hillary: no, that's one of the things I love really is that I kind of feel like when we read your books, we can really trust that what we're seeing is real 

Traci: because we do 

Hillary: research to an extent that.

We know you understand what you're writing about. And I, I really appreciate that. I think the setting does come through and, um, It 

Traci: transports us a lot, so, 

Charity: Oh, well, thanks. 

Traci: It can be painful when I'm looking at a single and I know exactly what's going to happen and I don't know how to get it from my fingers onto the screen, but once it's actually there, I'm like, okay, now I'm better now.

Like now I know what really happened. Well, 

Charity: I have one more question. I've heard you 

Traci: talk about this, Hillary doesn't remember, but I'm pretty 

Hillary: sure she, because I hear things and they're amazing, 

Traci: and they're wonderful that I forget, 

Charity: but I 

Traci: did have someone else 

Charity: to love your books. And I asked her, I said, what kind of questions would you ask 

Traci: Tracy, if you could.

Charity: Her one question, cause she's a beginning writer 

Traci: as 

Charity: well. 

Traci: And she said, 

Charity: how does she keep up with all of her characters across all these books? 

Traci: Oh, my gosh. So, you know, every once in a while, people are blessed with these super fans that are 

Charity: awesome. And 

Traci: there are a couple that I have actually on occasion will email and say, do you remember the name of so-and-so or, 

Charity: um, So during that.

Traci: So my advice for beginning reader or beginning writer would be start right away with a character Bible. And like that goes across John, like your different books. So keep it a character list and say which book they're in, just the general characteristics of them and that kind of stuff. I actually hired an assistant to go through all of my books.

And add them all into a spreadsheet. And also, I now have like a word document with all of the characteristics from my, um, audio guys. I've got another one that has the list of like organized by first and last names with possible names. And I even recently was watching somebody, it was actually an annual class writers' conference and it was talking about how to write 20,000 words in a day, which is beyond me, but.

It was more tips of how to be able to keep writing without getting those little interruptions. And one of them was, have a list of characters that you can draw from. And so that's, that's when my big challenge is like one of the reasons my books will often intertwined in practice. I just had a couple of characters pop into my current book that I didn't expect to show up.

Because I'm like, Oh, I need an FBI agent. Oh, I have these three I can choose from which one would fit the best. You know? And I'll, I'll literally pull from previous characters because I already know them. I don't have to name them again because when you've written 30 books, it's a lot 


Charity: names. It's a lot.

Traci: And I don't know how many times I've used the same name multiple times, but, you know, I don't want to confuse my reader. You know, leaders that was this, the same person as this person. And you do a lot of times we will fall back on, on similar names and not realize we're doing it. My first and third book, have I already had a repeat name that weren't the same person.

I mean, it was that fast that I, so people think there'll be able to keep track of it. And you know, when you think of the friends you had, you know, in elementary school, however many years ago, that was. And you try to think of treading everybody who was in your class. You can't do it. Like you think you'll, it's a moment.

You think you remember all of this forever and you just don't. So at least 

Charity: I don't. 

Traci: So it's true. So, yeah, that was an excellent question. I, I, I'm still trying to find the answer, but I hope someday we can 

Charity: come up with it. I'm 

Traci: in place now to help with that. That's 

Charity: wonderful.

Traci: Yeah. And in fact, I, my, my current assistance, actually, my daughter, I will, I'll text her and say, I need a name for somebody, and I will give her a basic description to say, give you some options.

And so she's often naming my characters, like the five characters and giving me the all right. Here's some, here's some suggestions like, like last week I gave her six names. I said, I need names for all of these people figured 

Charity: out. 

Traci: I love it. It's so much faster to have her do it than me. 

Charity: I just want, I love because one of 

Traci: the things I'm getting from this 

Charity: conversation is.

Traci: To be a successful writer is 

Hillary: great to have a team you can depend on great editors that you can work well with people to help keep you straight on 

Charity: where and when and why. And, and then 

Hillary: the CIA as well, being part 

Charity: of 

Traci: your team for. These realistic. And 

Hillary: in terms of other authors, people who know your content and 

Traci: can help you keep things straight that way.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and the other thing too, I, and I have learned over the years, how to. You able to pull things out that Tia is not, I wouldn't have a problem sharing. Like some of the times it's just one of my sweet romance type things, um, or scenes that don't have any intelligence in or whatever, but that I can share with my critique group and stuff.

And then like, um, and I'm lucky, like Paige Edwards is in my critique group. So she. Um, she's been great. And then, you know, the other people are just, they're going to be, they're the types that are probably gonna be New York time bestseller authors by the time they're, you know, once they break through, they'll just start big.

But, but then I also have like Sean Bessie and I will often text each other during the day of, so what's the goal today? You know, you talked earlier about accountability and, you know, that's, that's one of the things that has really helped me. Chinese helps somebody else stay focused helps me stay focused.

And like, I don't want to say, well, I only got 86 boards today because I just didn't do anything 

Charity: after I got out of bed, you know, whatever. 

Traci: But it's also great to have that support of saying. Hey, you know what I know you're dealing with a lot right now, unique. You should just take a day off, you know, it's okay to be human for a while and to take families can be a priority for a little bit so that I can, um, figure out my balance if I'm, you know, for out of balance.

So sometimes it takes another writer to recognize that, Hey, you're maybe a little off right now. You know, maybe like one of my girls in my rightest group, she was just like, I just sent a slump. I haven't really written for a while. And she'd recently gotten a rejection and. And we're all like you are amazing writer, but.

You know, instead of trying to push you should be writing right now. He did get the keyboard back out. It was more of, you know, maybe this would be a good time to look at other agents. And even if you don't don't query do that, or maybe it's time to do some research and, you know, just do a lot of reading, get excited about.

You know, what makes you passionate about what you're doing? And I think that's, that's where I've been able to have the career I've had is because I still love doing this, even though it drives me crazy. A lot of times I still, 

Charity: I love doing it, but I also love 

Traci: the people that, you know, you guys included, 

Charity: we, we 

Traci: get so many friendships from having that common.

You know, understanding of what this world is like to, to try to literally take a blank page and say, create magic on it. You made my morning right there. That was wonderful. I know we're going to go right 

Charity: after this

to read. Yes. Right? Uh, well, Tracy, it's been so wonderful having you with us today. Is there any. Last words of advice or 

Traci: anything about yourself that you would like to share with our listeners. If I were to give advice to people, it's simply that all of us have our own purpose and our own own way of doing things and to not let anyone else tell us how to do, um, you know, especially for writing how to do that or whatever else we're, you know, we found is our purpose in life to find, you know, to be true to ourselves in that because all of us have been given these different gifts that.

Are really given to us to put my out into the world. And so we all have to be true to that of not chasing a dream. That is somebody else's, we're doing impress somebody else, but to do something that is truly going to give us our satisfaction and our, our contentment. That was an amazing conversation.

Hillary: Thank you so much for getting up and 

Traci: doing that with us. Well, thank you for having me. This was fun talking to you all. 

Charity: I'm so excited. I hope things go well with your book and we'll make sure we put links to it in the podcast. Can 

Hillary: we invite you to, uh, help us with our sign-off. Okay. We want to thank everyone for listening in today is our conversation with Tracy Hunter Abramson, and we hope you all have a great week.

If you haven't already keep writing 

Charity: for. Right. 

Traci: The hard thing is, is that. You know, you don't get to where you're really making a career where you can live off of writing until you have a huge amount of books. If you're with a smack class, I mean, I'm just now hitting in the last couple of years, right.

People don't realize, but I'm also in a, with a publisher that keeps pretty much all of my books in print and most publishers don't do that. None of my series ever really end. They just kind of keep going. So which people enjoy people enjoy seeing recurring characters 

Charity: and new people. So that that's actually a great plan.

Traci: Yeah. And it totally happened because I don't like to name characters, like 

Charity: bring them back. 

Traci: Yeah. You probably have several trips canceled into seven and County. Oh, my goodness. I was supposed to leave for Germany the day our County sat down and then I was supposed to leave for Sarajevo two weeks later.

Charity: Oh, 

Traci: okay. Well, I'm trying to, right now it's like, okay, I'm writing a book that, um, the research I was going to, it totally changed the book because I couldn't do the research I would have was 


Charity: to do so. Are you going to have to do backup 

Hillary: research? Are you, are you just changing the way you 

Charity: do that or how are you 

Traci: handling it?

So basically I'm changing it so that, um, 

Charity: In the storyline I was going to 

Traci: do, I was going to go through Sarajevo and some of that, you know, the Balkan States. And so instead I'm like, I've already been to, um, to, to, um, Paris a few times my daughter spent a semester abroad there. So I was like, I'll just go ahead and set it there and kind of stay in that region of Europe that I'm more familiar with.

Yes. I, I honestly, like I was telling my editor, I was giving her an update on my current books actually is another guardian book I'm writing right now. And, um, so. I was like, I'm kind of scared because I think I know who the bad guy is, and I'm only at 150 pages. It could be wrong. And so sure enough, I wake up this morning.

I was like, you know, I'm not sure that that's really who it would be. I think it might be. I'm like, I don't even, like, I think this character has been introduced to it. I had no clue. So eventually I'll have to go back and figure out where this person is and make sure they show up at some point that, um, but even like, I typically, you know, a lot of times when you're dealing more than romantic suspense or romance, You're only dealing with sometimes two points of view.

And I typically have at least one or two more as I've been writing this current book, I, I only had the male and female leads. And I said, I was telling a friend that I don't know who the other, who the other lead is. Like, I think there's somebody else, but I haven't figured out who it is yet. And so sure enough, here I am like 165 pages in and I'm like, I know who it is.

I know who it is. So now we'll have to go back and weave in those scenes for this person as it's going. I do, I love the cover they did, but they'd forgotten to assign the cover for it because they knew I had a book coming in March, but they had mistaken, like they'd jumped forward to my junior release because they were used to me doing two books a year.

And now I'm at three. They completely missed. They totally skipped over my book and had forgotten to do a cover, 

Charity: like Erie was ready to go. And you guys 

Traci: didn't have a cover on that one, either. 

Charity: You guys not like my guardian series.