33 Story Worth Problem

Charity: [00:00:00] Welcome to the loose leaf author podcast. This multi-author podcast is full of big personalities and crazy ideas. We'll share our goals, our successes and failures, the lessons we are learning on the journey and the pitfalls that try to derail us. Best of all, there will be plenty of laughs along the way.

[00:00:20] We'll try to keep it short because you don't have that much time and we'd rather be writing. Alrighty. 

HIllary: We're excited to be here today. 

Charity: Yes, I'm charity. 

HIllary:] I'm Hillary and there's another one down there, sir. He's going to

[00:00:43] Kahle: [00:00:43] answer.

[00:00:45] HIllary: [00:00:45] Welcome to the party. 

[00:00:49] Charity: [00:00:49] It's going to be a winner today. I can feel it already. Kahle keeps freezing. 

[00:00:56] HIllary: [00:00:56] Is that I thought it was just being cool.

[00:01:01] Sorry. All right. Take us away. Charity. What are we looking at? Do you want to do goals and stuff like that? Or do we want to, 

[00:01:07] Charity: [00:01:07] yeah, we can start with our goals. Does anybody remember works calls or last. I'm talking. Let's see, I'm talking every time you say I'm not. Oh, no. 

[00:01:20] HIllary: [00:01:20] Oh, that is funny. I was wondering them.

[00:01:23] Charity: [00:01:23] Do you think it's better if you don't do video with the, what the sound work better? 

[00:01:29] Kahle: [00:01:29] I'll just try that

[00:01:34] a little bit.

[00:01:38] Charity: [00:01:38] Well, let's see. Oh crap. Oh,

[00:01:47] Kahle: [00:01:47] yeah. You heard it about 10 seconds after I said,

[00:01:54] Charity: [00:01:54] well, well, Hillary, why don't you fill us in on your writers or treat you got to go to last week and, uh, how that worked out for you. All right. 

[00:02:03] HIllary: [00:02:03] Um, proceed as normal. All right. So yeah, last week. Okay. I got to go on a writer's retreat. That was awesome. My goal for awhile has been to finish my cozy mystery and edit on my other romance.

[00:02:19] My last romance. I need to do an edit on that. Um, um, I did pretty good. I got through the cozy of mystery. And, um, I did some drafting on a new story. I didn't get into my, uh, romance editing, but, um, I have been making some notes on it to today, so that's good. Um, I'm also beta reading a book right now, so.

[00:02:43] Charity: [00:02:43] Awesome. Fun. Yeah. Do you find that since. That romance book is already published and out there it's easier to just go at it is what it is and work 

[00:02:52] HIllary: [00:02:52] on other things. Yeah. Yes. Except I'm really not happy with what it is right now. So I will be editing that one. That's another one of those where I'm like, I just have had some learning experiences and, um, it needs to be cleaned up.

[00:03:07] It really does. So, um, it's going to get an edit. But it's, I kind of included that in part of my work time and I just need to get that done. So 

[00:03:21] Charity: [00:03:21] we're going to drive it, but you, but you feel like you did get with the murder with the Mr. Not murder, mystery, cozy mystery. 

[00:03:30] HIllary: [00:03:30] Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm really happy with where that went and how that went down.

[00:03:34] I found myself, uh, An editor that I can use. So that was nice. Um, I've, that's what been one of my struggles actually is finding editor and editor that I can just send stuff to, you know? Oh, nice. Yeah. I think I've found one that I like pretty well. So that's been really nice. 

[00:03:51] Charity: [00:03:51] Oh, see, that's always a blessing.

[00:03:53] Yeah. Okay. So what are your goals? You said you, you want to still work on the romance a little bits at a time. It may not be your main focus. What do you think your main focus will be? 

[00:04:07] HIllary: [00:04:07] Um, that probably will be my main focus, actually, that and finishing drafting this other story, I'm working on a pen name, story, and, um, I want to get that drafted.

[00:04:19] I'm hoping to get it drafted this week. But I don't know, this week is actually going to be a little tricky for me. Cause my mom and my sisters are coming into town, which will be a lot of fun. But I, at first I was thinking, Oh, I'll get to do a bunch of stuff there. Cause it's, they're calling it a creative retreat, but my family is a sewing family.

[00:04:38] And so what I'm worried is that creative re-did is actually what that means is a sewing retreat. So I may be doing a lot of sewing this week. I do love to, so, I mean, it will be, it would still be very good, but, um, it wouldn't be accomplishing these goals. So, uh, we'll see. The good. One of the really good things about that is it reminds my brain, my sewing brain, what it needs to be doing.

[00:05:03] So it helps me when I'm writing those cozy mysteries. Cause it's cozy quilting, mystery, and it just as good to be in that world a little bit. 

[00:05:10] Charity: [00:05:10] Yeah. And that'll help with cleanup with the rest of that, that mystery and maybe work on the bigger novel. 

[00:05:16] HIllary: [00:05:16] Yes, I, I do still, I'm planning to get two of those larger novels out.

[00:05:21] I've got, um, a cool deal in the works for one of those, and I'm excited, but I don't think I can say very much about it yet. Okay, 

[00:05:29] Charity: [00:05:29] cool. Cool. We'll just have that for sometime in the future. A big announcement. It'll be fun. I love it. Tell us about your stuff. My goals and what I've been working on, trying to get my brain in the right place is sort of what brought about the topic I'd like to talk about after goals.

[00:05:47] So the goal several months in a row has been, I need to write Talia third book. I need to write Tanya's third book. It's gotta be done. It's been, yeah. Four years since book two came out, it's way overdue, but I've really struggled. And I couldn't figure out why I was struggling. I kept thinking, well, it's because I'm afraid to write these scenes that are coming up that are going to be really hard on her.

[00:06:11] They're going to be really hard on me. I mean, like seriously, I've sat in and just cried over the scenes that I have to write. And so I thought, well, it's just my fear. It's my insecurity. It's I just don't want to do it. And I do think that's part of it. However, I did something in the last two weeks that kind of brought up a new reason for why I might be struggling.

[00:06:34] I have been taking my 10 years of blog posts and putting them into a book. And as I've been flipping through them, I found this post about story where the problems and. I read over it. And it's actually talking about book one in the series Talia's story where you're the problem for the magic wakes. And as I read it, just this light bulb went off and I was like, I am so stupid.

[00:06:58] I'm just so stupid for four years. I've been like, I have to write Talia's book. I have to write Talia's book. But what I realized is this is not Taulia's book. This is Landry's book. Um, yes, and that's hard because the first two books, she is my main character. She is the one that had the story where the problem that needed to be answered and resolved by the end of that book.

[00:07:27] And so I've got like almost 50,000 words written and I've not. I mean, there's some good stuff there that I will be able to use, but I haven't been in love with a story. And because of that, I keep pushing it aside and working on other projects, which is great. Cause I'm finishing other things, but 

[00:07:44] HIllary: [00:07:44] yeah, not reaching that 

[00:07:46] Charity: [00:07:46] goal, not reaching that goal.

[00:07:47] Well, I mean, I've pushed it off for four years, so what. I have learned is that even though Talia has the most to lose in book three. And so logically, it sounds like, you know, the book should be about her, however, She really doesn't have a choice to make none of the choices that she does make will change the outcome of where the story's going.

[00:08:13] And so finding the story where the problem, should I explain what that is or, 

[00:08:19] HIllary: [00:08:19] yeah, it wouldn't hurt. Just tell him a little bit what you mean 

[00:08:22] Charity: [00:08:22] by that. I'll try to be super brief. And this is actually coming from a book called hooked by Les Edgerton, but he's talking about. How a story where the problem is different from the surface problems that, that you have in a book, because all books are built around trouble, but basically the story where the problem always relates more to the inner psychology of the protagonist.

[00:08:48] And it has to be big enough dramatic enough to change the protagonist's world and force him on a journey of change. 

[00:08:56] HIllary: [00:08:56] That's always one of the hard things for me is that whole it's the protagonist inner problems. And I'm like, you mean, I have to like, really know what she's feeling and thinking all this well at worst, 

[00:09:06] Charity: [00:09:06] you got to figure out how do you want them to change?

[00:09:08] I'm like, it's easy to throw problems at Bowman. Oh, you know, there's going to be this happened. And this habit, you know, it's easy to think of those events that are hard and challenging that they have to solve. But that's, that's what he's talking about as surface pro problems. And I can keep all the surface problems I've planned, but I have to now look at it from Landry's perspective because he's the one that will have the story where the problem that's going to drive everything forward.

[00:09:40] He's the one. That will change the most at the end of the story. 

[00:09:45] HIllary: [00:09:45] And that doesn't mean that you're going to change perspective, right. You're still writing it from Tanya's point of view. 

[00:09:50] Charity: [00:09:50] Yeah. Well, I've always written from both of their points of view, but in the other ones, it was her, her choices. It was her psychology that was changing.

[00:10:01] She was, 

[00:10:02] HIllary: [00:10:02] do you feel like those viewpoints are going to be weighted differently this time or is it just really your own author knowledge? That will change and create the story then because you know the problem, 

[00:10:14] Charity: [00:10:14] I think it will be a little bit of both. I think his should be weighted a little bit more, but I also think it's more of an internal thing for me that now I know where the focus is because I was having trouble making things match up.

[00:10:26] I had all these scenes, but something felt off to me and I couldn't make them match up. And I think it's because I was. Looking at Taulia and going, how is this changing her? It's not changing her. I'm going to have to throw this whole scene away. But now going back and I freak out, I'm like 50,000 words. I don't want to throw away 50,000 words.

[00:10:47] You know, my brain doesn't let go of that easily. It's really hard. Yeah. But now if I go back and go, okay, this scene is changing Landry and here's the best part. For like three months now, I've been trying to figure out where this story starts and the whole idea with knowing your story where the problem is your inciting incident is the, is the place that kind of introduces that problem.

[00:11:12] And your character might not recognize it. And it doesn't need to be fully like, boom, here's your problem, but that's kind of what triggers everything. And so I was trying to find a starting point trigger Talia. And of course I couldn't find it. So now that I know he's the one that has to be triggered to start his psychological journey.

[00:11:37] Now I know where 

[00:11:37] HIllary: [00:11:37] to start. Interesting. It makes me excited. I like that finding that beginning of the book is always really tricky to me because they always talk about throwing you into the, into the action and all this kind of thing. And it can be. I dunno, it's always a toss up for me cause I'm like, there's all sorts of points.

[00:11:56] I feel like where you could really start the, what, what defines the inciting incident for the story. And I think that's really good advice actually is to look for that story worthy problem and know that this is the kind of the. The thread that goes through your characters arc and whatever starts that that's your inciting incident.

[00:12:15] That's cool. That's something I've actually thought about a lot, especially with writing mystery the mystery, because like I I'll be going along and trying to thread together these experiences in every time I do it, I write this. The, the one that I typically write is in six parts and they are red. One month.

[00:12:32] And then it's two months before the next part comes out. And so like my full purpose without it, I'm like, I have to make this seem exciting. I have to end on a cliffhanger. It has to solve some problems. I have thrown some clues in there and it's like, I'll do this over and over again. But I'm like, but what's the problem.

[00:12:47] What exactly are we solving through all of these random pieces? And as I'm, as I was writing this last one, it's like, I'd go through several scenes and just I'd sit there and I'd just look at my wall and I. I don't do this with my romances, but I, I cover my wall in sticky notes with my cozy mysteries. I love it.

[00:13:06] I love sticky notes, but I just I'll write notes all over them and I'll stick them in lines and try to figure out and pull it in and move pieces around that way. And I'll just sit there and I'll stare at my wall and I'll be like, But what is the problem? Just like, what if somebody reads this story? What are they going to say?

[00:13:24] This was what it was about. You know, this was what changed. This was what needed to be solved, even just the base mystery of it all. It's like, there's so many things as you're trying to throw in more conflict. It's really easy to change the mystery. And then like, by the end, I remember the first time I did it by the time I got to the end, I'd forgotten what the mystery even was that I started with I'm like, wait, did we actually solve the problem?

[00:13:49] I dunno, but you had fun getting me. And I actually did end up solving the problem, but I had to do that. I had to go back and be like, okay, wait, we need to make sure that that's what we're fixing and not. Just coming up with new fun ideas that all of a sudden, Oh, look now like someone's in jail. Yay. We solved the problem.

[00:14:10] It's not the way it works. 

[00:14:13] Charity: [00:14:13] And see that's that's great. Cause that actually reminded me of another quote in his book, chapter three, he says every problem story worthy and surface has to have its own corresponding resolution or goal. So that's what you're talking about, you know, did we solve all these pieces?

[00:14:27] But he said that the resolution of the surface problem should not. Be the resolution of the story where the problem. And so you've got that big umbrella, but then you've got all your little clues that you've put through that you've 

[00:14:41] HIllary: [00:14:41] got to solve. Yeah. Well, and with all have to resolve with this one. I've, I've thought about that too.

[00:14:45] Just where it's tricky because my, uh, I've got my main sleuth who is actually my mother. And, um, I keep trying, every time I start one of the stories I'm like, I have to have some way for her to grow, but to me, she's my mom. She's like, she's already done, she's got, she's got this, we'll figure it out. She'll have grow into doing so, but it's as a character in the book, I have to give her things to solve.

[00:15:14] And I'm not sure I've gotten really good at that yet. That whole inner growth part of it. Um, But it is definitely something I've been thinking about and trying to make sure I'm including, uh, hopefully also the other thing I struggle with is that I'm writing the villas basically, and it's really hard to have all those pieces in the novella.

[00:15:34] You get short? Yeah. I at a max, I get 15,000 words, so yeah, it's between 12 and 15 and shorter is generally better. And. It's just, it's really hard to get it all in there. So 

[00:15:51] Charity: [00:15:51] that's really great practice though, for being concise 

[00:15:54] HIllary: [00:15:54] and yeah, I guess I think I leave out a lot of stuff, so I'm kind of excited to write a full length, novel audit.

[00:16:04] Charity: [00:16:04] Well, kale is back. He's got the eerie red glow going on. 

[00:16:10] Kahle: [00:16:10] It's just 

[00:16:11] Charity: [00:16:11] the poor lighting in this room. It's all good. So tell us about your goals. What happened last week, where you hope to go this week? 

[00:16:21] Kahle: [00:16:21] I'm not going to lie. I don't remember my goals for last week, but I did sit down and write or wrote. Very little that I was able to get out before I was falling asleep on the keyboard, but I wrote, and it felt really good.

[00:16:42] That's awesome. There are so many different things struggling with in the writing process. 

[00:16:50] Charity: [00:16:50] What are some of the 

[00:16:50] Kahle: [00:16:50] struggles I have having events, but then now, now that the story has bubbled long enough, I don't know where to start. I don't want it to be a narrative summary of this character's entire life.

[00:17:07] I want to find the actual exciting part of his life and tell that story and use chapter introductions to give the backstory that's necessary, but in little tidbits totally stole it from my favorite 

[00:17:22] Charity: [00:17:22] author. So this came today.

[00:17:27] So you have a whole month to read it and I have another one coming, but I didn't mean to derail you, but this should help you. I think that'll help you.

[00:17:39] HIllary: [00:17:39] She w she was just talking about, or we were just talking about kind of finding that inciting incident through finding your story, where the problems figuring out which character it relates to and the growth that's going to happen. And because of that, You're kind of able to track back and be like, Oh, well this is what kind of started that for them.

[00:17:55] So that's our inciting incident. That's where we begin. Yeah. It's something that I think all of us struggle with. It's hard because there are so many options on that. Like we got a whole life to deal with here. Where are we starting? But I'm writing. That's good stuff. Good for you. 

[00:18:13] Kahle: [00:18:13] Well, I re-read my prologue and I'm like, I'm so upset because my prologue.

[00:18:21] Was so easy to write. It was so easy to write and now it's like, Oh, now the actual story,

[00:18:32] where do I go? Where do I start with? 

[00:18:37] Charity: [00:18:37] So, do you feel stressed, like pushing down on you, making you anxious to write, like you don't wanna write because of the stress? Um, 

[00:18:44] Kahle: [00:18:44] no. Yeah,

[00:18:51] I've been, I have, uh, I've been listening to some really good writing and I think I'm just overwhelmed, especially with comparing, like, I'm like. How in the world, can someone have so much in their brain and then make it comprehensible to other people? 

[00:19:18] HIllary: [00:19:18] Is that the right word? It takes a lot of drafts and a lot of revisions.

[00:19:22] And a lot of time doesn't look like that. The first time they write it down. Right. 

[00:19:27] Kahle: [00:19:27] That's what I have to remember is that I think it's been a little over 20 years, that all this stuff that my. Current favorite author has been working on, it's been over 20 years that he's been bubbling this stuff in his brain and everything's coming together now.

[00:19:46] It's insane. Hey, so it's so cool. And I'm like, I don't want that, but I can't even get, I can't even get my head wrapped around is telling one guy's story. I don't, I don't need it. Literal universe coming together. I just need like, 10 people's stories intersect.

[00:20:11] Charity: [00:20:11] Oh my goodness. I, I, I'm starting to think that kind of, one of the main themes of our podcasts is this author imposter syndrome, the writer imposter, the insecurities that make us think all of these people do all these wonderful things. And I can't do that. And, and it's, it is, it's probably one of our biggest stumbling blocks.

[00:20:30] So hang on tight kale. Don't let it get you down.

[00:20:34] Kahle: [00:20:34] Well, the thing that has stuck with me the most is every time that you guys have said, just keep writing, just write, just write, just write it, kale, write the dang thing so I can fix it. I can fix things later. 

[00:20:52] HIllary: [00:20:52] Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of my favorite things as I'm writing, what I've been finding anyway is when I feel like I'm stuck, like, I'm just, I'll be riding along.

[00:21:01] And I'm like, none of this means anything anymore. All these words, I'm like just I'm, I'm working through a scene just to try and get somewhere so that something will stick. And I've been kind of, when I hit that point, I kind of will step back and be like, What do I want to be writing right now? What do I want to have happening in this story?

[00:21:18] What are the characters telling me where they should be? Because, um, if I let them tell the story, it goes so much better than when I try and push through a scene, because maybe that scene just needs to cut to black at some, maybe that's not where I need to be. So I've all like stepped back a little bit and look at it and be like, okay, this was working through here.

[00:21:38] All right. I'm just going to jump to this point and keep writing from there. And then I, I'm not sure emerged later, but it definitely tells the story better and there's usually, almost always, there's a way to bridge those gaps without a long breakfast scene where they're trying to decide what they're doing that day.

[00:21:58] I mean, it's just not necessary. I mean, really. Okay. Thank 

[00:22:02] Kahle: [00:22:02] you. That's extremely good advice. It is 

[00:22:06] HIllary: [00:22:06] excellent advice. We've got some good goals working on good steps. We do

[00:22:19] Charity: [00:22:19] well. I'm still excited for this new year. It started slower than I hoped it would, but Hey, we're all moving forward. And. That's really the best we can hope for, I think. 

[00:22:32] HIllary: [00:22:32] Okay. Um, at one point kale was like messaged me in between and was like, Hey, you should send us the names of the stories or list of the stories you're wanting to put out in 2021.

[00:22:42] And is that something that you guys did? Are we collaborating a list of that? Cause that would be cool. Put out our goals. That would be 

[00:22:49] Charity: [00:22:49] cool. We could definitely do 

[00:22:50] HIllary: [00:22:50] that. Nice. I'm 

[00:22:52] Kahle: [00:22:52] done for the 

[00:22:53] Charity: [00:22:53] co-lab. Where do we want to share them? You can 

[00:22:57] HIllary: [00:22:57] do it on Facebook. We can have it on our, just in the description of the podcast, if we want.

[00:23:02] Charity: [00:23:02] Cool. Let's do it 

[00:23:03] Kahle: [00:23:03] guys. It's so public.

[00:23:08] Okay. I'm 

[00:23:09] Charity: [00:23:09] ready. You know, I didn't really get serious until I started telling people. And then when people started, I mean, seriously, that first novel happened because my dental hygienists kept going, Hey, is that that book then yet? I was like, Oh, no.

[00:23:29] so it's, it's, it's strange. What telling people outside of our little group will 

[00:23:36] HIllary: [00:23:36] push you for the truth. Uh, the other thing that I think about and what I've been, I was talking to charity about it a little bit earlier. I'm like, you know, I had these goals for my week last week and I didn't hit him, but. I tend to do that.

[00:23:49] I tend to hit some high goals and then I don't make it there, but I make it maybe halfway and that's still pretty. And so I'm still progressing. And then I set my goals even higher and I'm like, Oh, I only made it halfway to that one, but Hey, look, I finished what I already have, what I was hoping to do before.

[00:24:05] So that's just, I think that's just the way I set goals. I tend to shoot, I throw some really high things up there and just be like, let's see if I can do it. So it's all right. I'm you put your goals out there. Set up the way you need to set up, if you need to set them small and achievable and make sure you've got that, then do it.

[00:24:22] If you want to slow up some high goals and see, you know, let's see what happens. Do what works for you because you know,

[00:24:31] Kahle: [00:24:31] I think for me, it's setting the small goals first and getting that feeling of accomplishment because my goal this week was, I don't think I said this on the podcast, but after we, after charity and I recorded with Benny Fife, um, my goal was literally just. To write, write something so that you can say that you wrote on the podcast,

[00:24:58] Charity: [00:24:58] see that success. And that is so funny because if that's what it takes. That's what you have to do that used to be when I started running my route, took me past friends' houses because I had to run past their house just in case they were looking out their window. I could not be well

[00:25:21] fantastic. So if you say I'm going to write 500 words this week, so that next week on the podcast, I can say. I wrote 500 words. 

[00:25:31] Kahle: [00:25:31] Excellent. Well, I'm going to write 500 words this week, Mark. My words. Nice. Yeah. All in red. Everything's going to need to be edited at the end of this, but

[00:25:51] HIllary: [00:25:51] I love that. 

[00:25:53] Charity: [00:25:53] So Kale's goal is to write 500 words. So kale. 500 words.

[00:26:03] Kahle: [00:26:03] I want, I want to hear Hillary's Mount Everest to go this week, 

[00:26:09] HIllary: [00:26:09] my Mount Everest or Kilimanjaro something. I need to finish drafting my pen named novel, which I am not talking about. Um, I'm going to finish drafting my pen name novel, and I am going to finish editing or. Let's see. No. Okay. That's really Mount Everest finished.

[00:26:28] Both of those. My goal is actually to finish editing the romance because I really want that out of my, my vision. I want that gone behind me so I can say whatever it is it is, and it's done. And I went to, okay, let's say I want to draft. 10,000 words on my story this week, I can do that. 

[00:26:48] Charity: [00:26:48] That's awesome. Cool.

[00:26:50] Okay. So my goal is continue percolating on Landry and how to make this his book. And while that's going on in the back of my mind, my goal is to finish the read through generalized edit on my romance. Um, 

[00:27:07] HIllary: [00:27:07] I wondered if you were going to say that ready for a read through 

[00:27:10] Charity: [00:27:10] it. I've got. Yesterday. And today I managed to get through the first five chapters and I've added another thousand words, just making it cohesive because right now I'm tying all the parts together.

[00:27:23] So I think 

[00:27:25] HIllary: [00:27:25] realistically, what you want to write and there's a way to bridge those. 

[00:27:29] Charity: [00:27:29] And, um, today I did have a spot where I said, I need to put a new scene here. So, but my goal is to get through the first read through of that. And if I feel like writing something on demon rising, I will, but I'm not going to stress about that.

[00:27:44] My focus is going to be on the romance, so sure. Cause that's totally doable, even though it's kind of a large goal. 

[00:27:51] HIllary: [00:27:51] Hey, props to my daughter, she finished the first draft of her story this week and she's like, it's not the first time I've done that, but it's the first time I've finished a draft with the intent to go back.

[00:28:01] Revise and actually make it a story. So 

[00:28:05] Charity: [00:28:05] to Allie, Allie, she needs to get on and share with this. She should be a 

[00:28:10] HIllary: [00:28:10] guest. It would be totally fun. 

[00:28:14] Charity: [00:28:14] Okay guys. So those are our goals and then we all need to make our lists and kale clarify what lists we're making. We're 

[00:28:25] Kahle: [00:28:25] making a list of our goals this year. 

[00:28:28] HIllary: [00:28:28] And our book, book completion, or book publishing goals, two different things right there.

[00:28:34] Kahle: [00:28:34] Mine is going to have some other stuff because my writing isn't all just simple stuff or going by 

[00:28:43] Charity: [00:28:43] radio stuff. Cause you've got your game 

[00:28:48] HIllary: [00:28:48] solid. 

[00:28:49] Kahle: [00:28:49] It's generally around writing, but. Yeah, 

[00:28:54] HIllary: [00:28:54] what we plan to accomplish in 2021 with the loose-leaf podcast, writing crew. Yay. 

[00:29:02] Charity: [00:29:02] Ready for it. So I did want to mention that I have ordered two copies, two print copies of the book hooked by Les Edgerton, but the whole idea is to hook your reader quickly.

[00:29:14] Like mostly in that first chapter, it's how to figure out where your story starts so that you're starting in the best place. Talks about. Conflict talks about how to set up your scenes. And it talks about kind of the rhythm that a story needs. It's a great, great resource for any, for a writer at any stage.

[00:29:34] Uh, like I said, I read it back in 2012, so I should know this stuff, but as I'm rereading it, I'm like. Wow. I don't do that. I need to do that. That will make me a better writer. So that's awesome. Kale gets his first copy to read, and we're 

[00:29:50] HIllary: [00:29:50] going to start going to write his name in it before he sends it to someone.

[00:29:54] Oh, dear. Read by kale. 

[00:29:57] Charity: [00:29:57] You should take your notes in it, and then someone will have this awesome.

[00:30:05] Kahle: [00:30:05] So I'll be like, look at this guys, terrible handwriting. 

[00:30:09] Charity: [00:30:09] I'll give you another copy to Hillary a third one,

[00:30:17] but the, the idea is, um, we want our leaf pile to grow. And so we're inviting everyone who has found us and is listening to join us over on Facebook. On our website. The link is going to be down in the notes. Com. Introduce yourselves. Tell us what you like and tell us that you want to be entered to win.

[00:30:39] Copy of hooked by Les Edgerton. I promise it's a great resource. It's a great tool to help you become a better writer. 

[00:30:47] HIllary: [00:30:47] Okay. So can you clarify those requirements again? What we are asking them to do? 

[00:30:51] Charity: [00:30:51] We, they are asking them to come to our Facebook page like it and introduce themselves and say, when they introduce themselves, I want to be entered to win.

[00:31:03] Okay. 

[00:31:04] HIllary: [00:31:04] Introduce and ask to be entered. There will be a post. Yes. 

[00:31:08] Charity: [00:31:08] Yes. I will pin a post at the top. So it's easy to find. Simply go to facebook.com backslash loose leaf podcast. And if you have any other questions, please email me@charitydotbradfordatgmail.com. Until next time, keep writing.

[00:31:36] Well, today is the podcast of lag. 

[00:31:42] Kahle: [00:31:42] The reaction time is hilarious. I say something and then you guys laugh like almost exactly 10 minutes later. This is so weird.

[00:32:12] HIllary: [00:32:12] I think you can plug that sounded wherever you want it. Charity.