Episode 14--Writing in the Opposite Gender POV 

Hillary: [00:00:00] Welcome to Loose Leaf. If a multi-author writing journal, where we talk goals, the ups and downs of writing techniques and where we try to warn you off our greatest pitfalls, 

Kahle: [00:00:19] we'll keep it short because we don't have much time and we'd rather be writing.

Charity: [00:00:23] We've got a new guest with us today. I'm charity.

We're going to have him introduce himself in just a moment and 

Hillary: [00:00:31] Hillary. 

All right, Kahle, why don'tCharity: [00:00:33] you get us started and tell us who you are, what you write and just a little bit about yourself

Kahle: [00:00:39] I'm Kahle vonBosse . Uh, I am a radio copywriter. Uh, for most of my writing and I am a desperately aspiring fantasy writer.

Everyone: [00:00:54] I love it. 

Charity: [00:00:56] Kahle is here today because he had the great idea that we needed to talk about how to write from the opposite gender point of view. And when he came up with the idea. I was like, that's a great idea. You're going to do it with me. 

Kahle: [00:01:11] I was like, Oh, 

Charity: [00:01:14] so see one 

Everyone: [00:01:15] way or the other, we will make you think about writing and we'll get it done.

Hillary: [00:01:20] That's a fun one for me. When charity mentioned it, I was like, Oh, we have to do this everyday because we write romance. I'm always writing from the opposite perspective. And that's one of the things I get called on all the time. It's like, wait a second. Not sure. They'd actually think like this. So that's fun.

I'm glad. 

Charity: [00:01:34] So we're just going to jump right in. I'll post a lot of links in the show notes for where we got some of this information, but I'm hoping to just touch on a few things. And then you guys jump in, share your thoughts, ask your questions, and let's try to figure out how are men and women different or how are we the same.

And, and how does that affect the way we're writing our stories? The first thing I want to talk about is this quote that I found here. And like I said, the notes will be. Uh, the source will be in the notes. It says men are more direct in saying what they mean. They talk a lot less than women and discuss their feelings a lot less too.

Do you think that's true? 

Everyone: [00:02:14] Yeah.

Kahle: [00:02:25] they got me thinking it got me thinking. Cause so, uh, I guess a little bit more about myself. I'm an apprentice electrician. I worked construction. That's my full-time job. But, um, you know, I have a lot of coworkers that I feel like fit that including myself most of the time, but I've recently started working with a guy who, you know, he's, he's very open.

I wouldn't say extremely open, but like we talk about deeper stuff and it's honestly, it was a bit surprising in my field, but it's cool. It's cool. So, I can't say it's a universal, but you can't really say anything so universal, but, but more, much more typically, uh, we're just shooting the breeze and talking crap.

So that's the PG 

Everyone: [00:03:14] version you don't want to dig 

Charity: [00:03:17] deep into deeper conversations or, or is it just, that's just the way it is. 

Kahle: [00:03:23] I tend to share. Deeper conversations or save deeper conversations for people that I know I'm going to be spending more time with. Um, that's the way that I kind of see it. Um, 

Hillary: [00:03:37] that makes a lot of sense.

I think that makes sense. I think from a women's woman's perspective, um, I think I'm going to do that, but then it all just kind of falls out 

Everyone: [00:03:48] happens. 

Kahle: [00:03:50] I mean, I mean, I don't want to share everything with someone. Unless I know that like this is going to become a friend or this is already a really good close 

Hillary: [00:04:00] friend.

If you're trying to kind of deepen that relationship and say, sorry, say let's make this real, I mean, let's be, let's be real with each other. 

Kahle: [00:04:08] Yeah. And I mean, frankly, it's like, sometimes you're just like, yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. And so you're like, we're just going to talk about garbage all day and goof off.

Everyone: [00:04:20] That'd be fine. 

Hillary: [00:04:21] Yes. So do you 

Charity: [00:04:22] have any thoughts on that? Aspect that you would like to ask us as women, how it's different 

Kahle: [00:04:28] camping right now. I'll be thinking I'll keep thinking. Okay. 

Everyone: [00:04:33] Well, I, I do think it's funny cause I know my husband's always. 

Charity: [00:04:38] His, one of his triggers is when I say, can we talk? 

Everyone: [00:04:42] And he's just like, no, no.

Hillary: [00:04:45] I think I have that one of my books where she's thinking about starting a conversation, like, can we talk? He was like, no, nothing good ever happens. I said, we're going to rephrase. 

Charity: [00:04:54] Let's move on to the next one. Men often have a cut and dried problem solving solution approach to things, and they like to take charge of a problem and solve it.

Whereas women like to spend a good amount of time talking about it and how it makes them feel. 

Hillary: [00:05:10] Is that correct? Really true. I mean, really, because I feel like I do that sometimes too. Like when my husband and I, I'm not saying he doesn't, but I wouldn't, I'm one of those solvers I want to get in and solve it.

And, um, I guess I, like, I, I don't know. Maybe I pull from both sides there because I'm definitely more of the talker than he has to, but I think that's more of a personality thing than a man woman thing. Is that okay? Yes. 

Kahle: [00:05:31] I kind of feel that way too. I think. My wife and I are both solvers, but we both need somebody who will just listen frequently.

It's here's the problem. And then we'll try solving it. And it's like, I just need you to,

Hillary: [00:05:52] rough about that as a solver is you don't realize that's what you need either. It's like, you think we want to fix it, but that is you're getting into this problem. And there's really no fixing it. You're like, no, let's just back off because. 

Everyone: [00:06:03] I just think I needed to talk about. 

Charity: [00:06:04] Yeah, because sometimes that's what brings it into perspective, say, Oh, you know, and then you could deal with it if you can't fix it.

Well, I love that you said that you pull from both sides and that you're the fixer and that maybe that's a misconception that men are always the go-to problem-solver fixers and women aren't because I like that you said it's probably more of a personality thing than it is a gender issue. Um, and that's kind of what I think, as I read these, all these different blogs, that's what I kind of came to.

And I did find one person, uh, a Lee Mar Martinez. I hope I'm saying that. Right. And, uh, a link to his, this particular blog will be on the bottom. But what I loved is he writes science fiction and he said over all his years of writing, what he came to understand is this. He said there is nothing in this universe.

So similar to a man. As a woman and vice versa. And then he goes on to talk about how, if we want to create these characters, sometimes we need to stop thinking about I'm writing this from a man's point of view, especially if we're a woman or I'm writing this from a woman's point of view as a man, because we may start putting in all those stereotypes that aren't necessarily true.

Um, do you guys have thoughts on, 

Hillary: [00:07:22] I think that's true. Um, I think we worry about things way too much in general. So I really liked that because it's like what you said in the beginning where we all, there is no cut and dry. There's no one way that a personality or a gender is. Um, and that's something that I have found even just in getting to know people, there are certain people I met where the guys were just really talking to them and you're like, Oh, okay, we're going to do this.

Um, so it's kind of nice when you're writing. If you don't worry about that too much. That you can just write what the story needs to be. And then something that, um, a friend of ours did, uh, Tamra Heiner yes. She wrote her first romance from both perspectives and she went through and wrote the entire man side and then the entire woman's side, which was.

Really interesting to me, which, because I'm a pantser, I don't know what's happening next. So that sounded really hard, but she, she did that. And I thought about that a lot as I've gotten, I think that something I want to be trying to do, I haven't really done it yet, but as after I write my story to go back through and just go through the man's point of view, if nothing else, it keeps them consistent.

Because it's true. That really, that we're very similar. There's a lot of things that both of us do and you, you can make that character, whatever it needs to be, but that way you can keep him or her consistent as you go through the story. And I think it will really help voice. It will help create them as a person.

It will help it make feel more real. Um, but that was just something I found to be interesting and kind of helpful because even though they really can be whatever, knowing the stereotypes helps. Because it will resonate with people when they're reading it true. Even though we don't really like stereotypes and we don't like making things always the same, it resonates with people because we understand it.

Um, but then putting just enough in there to change it a little bit so that they feel originals where they feel real. So that, that makes a more three-dimensional person. I think that's, that's a really cool thing. And knowing that other people recognize that it's kind of nice. Very much. 

Charity: [00:09:31] So I love what you're saying, because it's exactly kind of what, um, the sky was talking about.

And I'm not going to go over all of this cause I w I will send you guys there and you can read it yourself, but what you said, I think sums up here. He has a couple of points, but, um, just for the sake of time, I'm going to talk about this one. And he said, do I care about this character? And I think that's what you're getting to.

He said, Every character lives or dies by the care the writer puts into them. If you care about those characters across the gender divide, if you take the time to imbue them with personality, then you're probably doing, doing it right. And then I loved loved it. He said, never forget that your characters, even when different than you share common ground, they have hopes and dreams, fears, and ambitions.

The Gulf between genders might seem like a challenge, but it's mostly an illusion. And I think that's because. All those things that you just said about everybody being different and our experiences and just our personalities come into play. What he got down to is as long as you care about the characters and what their goals are, and what's standing in their way and how they're going to overcome it, then you're going to be able to create a real well-rounded character.

Hillary: [00:10:47] Um, so I have a question. Are you good? Yes, I'm good. Okay. I have an answer. I'm like, she looks 

Everyone: [00:10:53] scared. 

Hillary: [00:10:55] I'm wondering if you guys have ever had an opportunity where you've either been writing and had to consciously choose to write from that other perspective where it didn't just, wasn't just, Oh, I'm writing and here's the words.

Um, you're consciously, how would this gender perceive this situation? Or one that I was thinking about that where you've been in a conversation with someone and you've thought, and they have identified with how one gender's perspective would be different during a conversation. Does that make sense? Like just where you've noticed the difference?

Basically, let me think while you're thinking I have one, this was what spawned the idea. I was talking to someone about like there, um, They're meeting how they met each other there, you know, all that kind of stuff. We all just get to sit down at dinner. Everybody shares a conversation. Tell me. And one of the things she was talking about was her when her husband proposed to her and she just laughed and was like, all of those proposals in those romance books are so sick because they just turned into blistering idiots and they can't say anything.

And he's down on one knee. And he like holds up this ring and he's like, 

Everyone: [00:12:00] well, have you, um, yeah,

Hillary: [00:12:06] I have to write this in a story somewhere because 

Everyone: [00:12:09] she's right. All these sorts of proposals of everything. So you're amazing and wonderful. You want more? And I can't stand to be without you. I mean,

Kahle: [00:12:21] it was pretty much how my proposal went.

Right. Do you have a minute for

so stopped on the way to Rexburg. We were in Provo, Utah. We were heading up to expert guide ho and near Blackfoot, Idaho. There's a rest stop and it's super cool. There's like a walking trail that goes off into the wilderness. On top of it was this huge concrete platform. And so we went up there to it's like an observation deck for the area only list stirring cold.

It was February 16th, wind was blowing. I mean, it's always, wind is almost always blowing up there, but so the wind is buffeting us. It is cold. Um, and we get up and I'm like, yeah, physically shaking from the nerves and the cold. And I'm like giving her a hug and I get down on one knee and I'm like, will you marry me?

And she's like, 

Everyone: [00:13:30] Here.

This is where we started.

Kahle: [00:13:46] The environment was like, you know, we were on our drive back. She had the nothing to like get pretty that day. But for the two weeks before that she was like dolled out on every day because she was just expecting it, expecting it. And then I just. I was like, I knew she wouldn't expect it then, but okay. So there's, that was a fun moment.

I just like seriously, she's like, yes. And then we like ran to the car because it was so cold, 

Hillary: [00:14:15] those kind of heart-stopping moments, you know, where you're like, these are important in my life. And. It's kind of fun to see them from all the guys. He says 

Everyone: [00:14:24] a girl six. 

Charity: [00:14:27] I think it's great. Cause he was being romantic in his mind and she's 

Everyone: [00:14:31] like,

Hillary: [00:14:37] that? We see there. Do you guys know that commercial where they're just driving in a car? There's even like a Twizzler or something like that. And it's like these deep thought music. It's like, I wonder if I should start, uh, learn to ride a skateboard. What am I just started skating?

Charity: [00:15:04] looking out the window, looking at all the 

Hillary: [00:15:07] nature. And at the same time, girls' heads are all over the place. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Are. Yeah, 

Kahle: [00:15:15] my brain is all over the place.

Hillary: [00:15:21] just fall into it's personality and not gender. 

Everyone: [00:15:24] I think so. Okay. So I, so 

Charity: [00:15:28] I don't know if I haven't answered your question, but I have another 

Everyone: [00:15:30] question because one of the things that, 

Charity: [00:15:32] uh, I've always wondered if it's really a gender thing, or if it's personality is I will ask my husband. So what are you thinking about?

And he'll say nothing. And when I say nothing, that means I need you to dig 

Everyone: [00:15:45] around until you figure out what's wrong with me because I am upset and 

Charity: [00:15:52] he can be like getting all snugly and I'll ask, what are you thinking? And he's like nothing. And I'm like, 

Everyone: [00:15:57] okay, now I'm 

Charity: [00:15:58] confused. I'm 

Everyone: [00:16:00] really thinking nothing.

I'm like,

Kahle: [00:16:06] That was, that was, I've been trained to just say what I'm thinking about. And now she just doesn't ask most of the time. I'm like, I was just thinking about, you know, what my character in my book should do, because she's like, okay,

Everyone: [00:16:34] maybe my husband's really not thinking about it.

Kahle: [00:16:39] I mean, I don't know. I wonder if he's wondering about like, what angle should I cut that would, uh, that it should fit into this

Hillary: [00:16:50] though, typically more than, I don't want to talk about that kind of 

Kahle: [00:16:52] an answer. Um, I think when, when I'm asked, what are you thinking? I'm like, I should have something important to say, and if I don't have something important to say, it's like, Nothing. I'm just thinking about my video game.

I mean, if you really want to know, I'm thinking about my video game, I'm thinking about, uh, some garbage from work like that doesn't matter. So like how 

Hillary: [00:17:19] many of these things do you want to talk about? 

Everyone: [00:17:21] There's a few of it. 

Kahle: [00:17:21] Yeah. That's, that's what I think for me. That's what's going 

Charity: [00:17:26] on. So kale, since you wanted to do this topic, before we move on to our weekly journaling, What is it that you really want to know about the female mind?

Do you write female characters? 

Kahle: [00:17:39] I am trying to cool. What what's happened is I've, as I've been like blocking out my book, there's always been a female character. Who's a part of it. Okay. There are two, three, there are three. Sorry. There are three. One is the main characters. Mom. I know what she's going to do.

There's actually a fork in the road later, down later down the storyline that I haven't decided what's going to happen there, but there are like, there are two distinct paths. She could, she could die because of something or the dad could die and then she could become, she could fill his place in the storyline.

Both of those create different motivations for the main character. I have young girl who will meet the main character. Later down the line. She leads her people in like a rebellion. Um, she is cool. That's yeah, Payson. She's awesome. Um, then there is a character who I need to be a member of the party. Her name is.

Everyone: [00:18:52] Her her, 

Kahle: [00:18:54] I don't want to say superhero name cause that's not true. I'm just trying to her alter ego. Her alter ego is right grave. Uh, I don't know what her name is. I have it on a note somewhere in my phone, but I'm not sure that I like it as much, but Redgrave, I don't know where they're going to meet her.

I don't know how she's going to be even interested in joining the group. I don't even know what she's like other than she has a cool name and will be helpful. Like what the heck is going on. I, my, I can get into the heads of the male characters that I'm writing, but I'm having such a hard time being like, well, why would this lady even care about these guys?

Like, 

Charity: [00:19:39] so it's really the question of her motivation 

Kahle: [00:19:42] for joining the quest. And then from that motivation building who she is. 

Charity: [00:19:48] So Hillary, do you have any tips on how he could figure out the motivation? Because 

Hillary: [00:19:54] I'm sitting here thinking, boy, girl, it's just who she is. It's what her life 

Charity: [00:19:58] experiences like what has happened in her past to bring her.

There the other 

Hillary: [00:20:05] being thing. Well, yeah, and it kind of just depends on how she gets there and what you need her to do. Like if she has a typist in their group, then that, can you figure out from that, how she gets there, if she's going to stay in the group, if she's going to be very long, if she's going to really connect to them or if she's going to be kind of standoffish and just here, because maybe they're giving her something, I was going 

Charity: [00:20:24] to say, I love that you said, um, if she has a purpose for being in the group, if you know what it is, you need her to help accomplish.

That will also tell you what her streak is going to be. And then you can ask yourself, well, how does she get strong in that one thing? And that could lead to what it was that pushed her into joining. That's cool. 

Hillary: [00:20:46] Something I've been thinking about as we've talked about that is, um, this is a gender one, I think where women typically tend to be very Nurtury.

And so depending on if she's older or younger or what, maybe it doesn't matter, but, um, depending on the circumstance that brings her in. There are lots of nurturing kind of things where she might stay because she thinks she can help them. She might stay because, or maybe it breaks from that. And because of the experiences she's had, maybe she is anti that, you know, a lot of the time things that are typical, gender qualities will be really strong one way or the other.

And, um, we tend to fall into extremes on those kinds of things. And it would be really interesting if she came in and was like, I'm not taking care of you. People I'm here for me only kind of a thing. So it just depends what she needs to do because her name is Brad grave. I consider her already to be like really strong.

Yeah. When you called her Diane, I was like, okay.

all the Diana's out there. I'm sorry. I'm sure you're very strong. 

Charity: [00:21:54] Okay guys. I know we are just about out of time. We need to wrap this up. Hillary and I have started doing our. Kind of our journaling on here where we want to talk about our goals and what we've learned. And so do you want to go first, Hillary  okay.

So remind them what your goal was. The last time we, my 

Hillary: [00:22:11] goal was to finish my story. I had a deadline coming up that deadline has passed. I did finish

it's out there. It still has a little bit of tweaking to do to it, but it makes it so easy to do that when I'm self publishing, because it's there and it's, it's good. Um, I know when I read it and it's 

Charity: [00:22:35] really good

Everyone: [00:22:39] and I 

Charity: [00:22:39] read it like right before it was released. So it was, that's 

Hillary: [00:22:42] pretty much the pretty much solid. Yes. I have a couple of things I have to change the car that he has. 'cause I re I said something, he he's a billionaire. So I like, you know, I was a Ferrari I'm like what? It's super, just standard. But two, I said something about him getting fancy car because he wanted to be comfortable among guys.

And after I posted I'm like, I don't actually think for a second. 

Everyone: [00:23:04] I don't know if that's why people buy Ferrari's 

Hillary: [00:23:08] for going to a McLaren GT, 

Everyone: [00:23:10] but still

that's one of my favorite 

Charity: [00:23:15] cars on Forza.

Everyone: [00:23:20] I asked my dad, I talked to my son.

Charity: [00:23:31] Okay. So what did you learn or, 

Hillary: [00:23:34] yeah. Okay. So what I learned from that was, I'm never doing that to myself again, because I was up to the deadline. I'm still fixing it after the deadline has passed. It's good. But I'm still working on things and it's just so freaking stressful when that happens. I mean, you don't like that.

So what I learned my pitfall this week was that I, um, I gave myself enough time, but I didn't use it. Um, I, how I'm working on that is I'm trying to be more consistent about my writing, my daily writing. Get the story done before there's a deadline and I'm trying to see better. Um, one of my problems is I don't work well without a deadline.

So having a deadline, I knew I would get it done, but I tend to do that to myself, to where I just, I have so many things. I mean, we all have lives. And so there's so many things going on that it's really easy to be like, it's still a long way away. I thought a little bit done today. That's good. And I'm trying to be better about having more, um, Um, bolstered bold, uh, strong goals.

Yes. It's like, there's some kind of push up my goals to make 'em a little bit more than, Hey, I'm just living my life. So I'm doing, and hopefully that is going to get me to finish more stories, um, in a timely manner. So that once I finish the story, then I can set my release dates. I can set my marketing goals.

I can say all these things, because if I'm just. Pushing stories out at the last minute, I'm not going to be able to market them. I'm not going to be able to do things that need to, so they can be really good stories before they go out. So that was my pitfall, something I'm working on. And I feel like I have a pretty good handle on my going forward step.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Hopefully yes. Crossing. 

Everyone: [00:25:15] That'd be awesome. 

Charity: [00:25:16] And that's something that I think we all struggle with as well are our time constraints and how we use it. Okay. So before we move on, what's your goal for this next bit of time? 

Hillary: [00:25:25] I have another story

I'm working on. Okay. So I have, I started a new series that I was planning on having come out in January. Then I just got really excited about it. So I kept writing, writing on it. And I actually stepped back from that one a little bit, because I was thinking about my main goals really are to make money from this.

I want to make money with my writing. That is important to me. And so I was thinking about, okay, if I, it is September. And the end of the year is only so many months away. What can I do in that time to make money before having to let my next book out in January? I mean, that's a bunch of months there.

That's nothing's happening if I don't have anything happening. So as I pulled back and I said, okay, I'm going to work on my Christmas novella series because I should be able to ride those fairly quickly. They should be able to be edited fairly quickly. And then I can start. If I can get most of those done, I can start publishing them at the end of the year.

Awesome. So that's my goal is I have the first one drafted from forever ago. I revamped the series, connected all my stories, all my hair.

Everyone: [00:26:35] That was exciting. 

Hillary: [00:26:38] Like with red river. I mean, I feel like once I named them, it's like the personalities are he start coming out? I can already start to feel who these people are.

And so that's kind of fun, but I named everybody. And so I'm revamping that first story I, by next week, I plan to have that one. Yeah. Um, a solid draft. 

Charity: [00:26:52] Awesome. I can't wait. And that's, uh, 12 days of Christmas 

Hillary: [00:26:56] novellas set, which will be really fun. So 

Everyone: [00:26:58] 1200. 

Kahle: [00:27:01] Oh, there we go. 

Charity: [00:27:03] Do you want to take a term kale? Do you want to set a goal?

And I guess, I guess I should ask, do you ever think you can handle joining us again in the future? Would you like to, or

Hillary: [00:27:18] those were really big goals. Yes, my goals didn't use to be like that. So if your goal is just finishing a scene or whatever, and that's the same for everybody out there, I mean, your goals are all different and that's what makes it fantastic. So, yeah. 

Kahle: [00:27:28] Yeah. Well, if you run me through the questions, I, I bet I could.

Charity: [00:27:33] What's a goal that you would like to 

Everyone: [00:27:34] set? 

Kahle: [00:27:36] I feel like it's kind of a cop out because I did it like a month ago. 

Everyone: [00:27:41] Yeah. You're just coming in now. You have your time to report. That's okay.

Kahle: [00:27:47] Only right. Like I said is radio copy, but I research classical musicians and write about the pieces that are being aired on, on the radio. So. What I was really proud of getting done. It was in the middle of August. I wrote three episodes in one day and that normally takes me like about six hours. And I did it in like three and a half.

And the rewriting process was like a breeze. Um, my editor, my boss is my editor. And so he shot back what he thought I should do. The rewriting was awesome. So it's just gonna, it's just a matter of getting it all recorded. Which that's going to be part of my goal for, for the next two weeks is to get the four episodes that I have left in this batch recorded and sent off.

Cause they're all written, but it's just getting out here before this.

No, 

Charity: [00:28:45] seriously. Well, what I'm hearing though, is, is that your writing is getting stronger. It's getting easier. So it's getting faster. I know that's exciting. 

Everyone: [00:28:54] Really exciting. Good job. 

Hillary: [00:28:56] So do you have any learning experiences that you had during 

Kahle: [00:28:59] that? Yes. There were, there was one episode where I pretty much, okay.

It was Brahms symphony, number one, and I am so tired about writing about the typical things in Brahms life. Because there's really like five main things you can talk about. And I just got so sick of it. I tried something totally new. I brought in like song lyrics from the seventies and then a quote from something and sent it.

And my boss was like, this is not good. Just stick to the historical stuff. And kind of just swallowing that pill. I was able to actually write like a decent intro for it and still keep some of those ideas. But. 

Hillary: [00:29:46] What's interesting about that is that relates very much to it. Um, all writers are doing where you, you have to write to market if you want people to appreciate it and enjoy it.

And a lot of time we'll try and pull all these other things, and there's still ways to use them. There's still because if you only write exactly the same thing as everyone else, then it's no good either. Yeah. But you do have to kind of incorporate those pieces that are familiar. The things that people want to hear, the stuff that's.

That's 

Charity: [00:30:08] cool. Yeah. Yeah. You have to meet their expectations. 

Everyone: [00:30:12] My expectations 

Kahle: [00:30:14] are terrible. And if I can put one more goal in, um, I want to. Figure out who Diana cabron is and really figure out why she matters to the plot, what she's going to, what she's going to need from the group and what they're going to need from her.

So I'm going to get that figure. 

Charity: [00:30:34] Okay. Exciting. And we'll ask you 

Everyone: [00:30:36] the next time we have you here and we'll say

Charity: [00:30:42] red, gray, who is red grapes. And that's so funny, cause that's very much what Michael last time was. Um, so just to fill you in last time, I got all excited about going back to science fiction and not writing romance for a while. And my goal was I had to make some hard decisions about ages and. W how I was going to break the story up.

And I did all that and I did a lot of research on stuff and I was getting really excited and I started to write 

Hillary: [00:31:10] and it was great. And then I could 

Everyone: [00:31:12] look at fall. I got a 

Charity: [00:31:15] message about a deadline, October 15th, where I had to have a Christmas romance, novel 30,000 words, at least 30,000 words. Written revised, edited and turned in before October 15th.

And that's 

Everyone: [00:31:30] ready to 

Hillary: [00:31:30] go. 

Everyone: [00:31:31] And guess what? I had not written  

Charity: [00:31:36] I have not. I had about 9,000 words that I wrote at the beginning of the year, like in January, and then I put it aside 

Everyone: [00:31:43] and for 

Charity: [00:31:45] like two minutes, I was like, that's fine. I'll just back out. I won't be in this box that, and then. It just hit me. I was like, I paid 

Everyone: [00:31:54] to 

Charity: [00:31:54] be in this box set.

I've already contributed my part of the marketing funds I've already, you know, and I just, I just couldn't let it go. I was like, Oh, you know? Um, and so I had to do a complete one 80. I was deep into. My science fiction. I was studying military strategy for my space 

Everyone: [00:32:15] battle. I 

Charity: [00:32:16] was trying to figure out how to talk from the guy's 

Everyone: [00:32:19] point of view and his, 

Charity: [00:32:20] his book, I changing ages and, and, and had started rewrites.

And I was happy. 

Everyone: [00:32:26] So

then to have to go. I have to 

Charity: [00:32:34] stop and I need to start writing 

Hillary: [00:32:36] romance right now. Like where's my fluffy Christmas where I best sprayed 

Everyone: [00:32:40] my lost it. And so 

Charity: [00:32:43] what I did overcome this pitfall is my husband was really great for my birthday. He, he gave me a night away at a hotel and I, I know it was, and I was, you know, I took everything so that whatever I wanted to do, I could do, I could write, I could plot.

I could do whatever. I don't have cable at home. So I sat all night and watched hallmark movies to get back in the romance mindset.

And I started watching Christmas movies. I was like, okay, we gotta, we gotta think Christmas. Cause I mean, it's, it's hot right now in August at the time it was August. And, uh, I was not thinking Christmas. I was not thinking romance. Um, but kind of re immersing myself into that world has helped. And. I now have almost 20,000 words.

So this week my new goal is to finish this draft because then 

Everyone: [00:33:38] I've got to get it to beta 

Hillary: [00:33:39] readers it to 

Everyone: [00:33:40] editors. I've got to 

Hillary: [00:33:42] get that thing finished. Also, I'm working with her right now and I'm reading some of it. And I did not want to put that down. 

Everyone: [00:33:50] We're here to do the podcast and I'm 

Hillary: [00:33:51] like, Okay. 

Everyone: [00:33:55] It was brilliant.

Charity: [00:33:56] Good. Thank you. That really, that really makes me feel good. Cause I was, I felt like mentally I was struggling, but something I learned, I guess the last week and a half was well 

Hillary: [00:34:06] as you 

Charity: [00:34:07] do. Oh, well there's 10 years. It better start coming easier. Right? I mean, if, if I, if, if I couldn't crank something out, then I would.

Everyone: [00:34:16] I should just stop

Charity: [00:34:23] but I was listening to last weekend. We did a little road trip and I was listening to a podcast. Don't ask me which one, I'll try to find it and put a link to it. But, uh, it might've been a Ted talk. They were talking about multitasking. Um, but multitasking slowly. And as we listened, I realized, okay. When I used to put out more books, I multitask.

I was writing science fiction and romance at the same time. And however, I felt that day, that's what I worked on. And so I wasn't, you know, making myself, okay, you have to finish this, you know, with a deadline, I now have to finish the romance, but, um, in the two weeks that I've been writing on it, there were times where I was fed up.

And so I simply close that document and I open my science fiction and I worked for like 30 minutes. Did like two, three, 400 words. And then I was like, okay, I'm happy again. I can go back to the romance. So for me, what I've learned is multitasking with my writing actually is helpful for me because when I get stuck, you know, we've talked about getting blocked in the past and how writer's block shouldn't really be a thing.

And it probably isn't, it's just, you know, but for me that helps me get over writer's block because I keep writing, I keep doing something, it keeps me in that habit. And I actually think it makes my writing stronger to mix those genres. That's what I've learned. Cool. And I'm hoping to take that 

Kahle: [00:35:48] forward.

So I wanted to, I wanted to ask if I could insert a little something. So I've been, I've been reading a book called range. Um, it's by David Epstein, it's a book, that's anti specialization. Uh, one of the things, one of the things he references is like a joke. Uh, the doctors make sometimes about like, Oh, we needed to, we need to find a left, left ear doctor, and then they have to check to make sure that that's joke.

And there is an actually a left ear doctor because specialization is getting so crazy in certain fields. Um, I mean, kids are in football from four to high school, hoping to get into football, but you look at the most successful people in those fields. Yo-yo ma who started as a violinist and then later, I mean, still early, but later went to piano, decided he didn't like it then went to cello and then became like the best cellist in the world that we know.

Yeah. Yeah. There's something to be said for experience. Right. Right. Well, okay. So in Venice, there was an, uh, hospital, uh, that was run by nuns and people would drop off. Children that they didn't want. And this was a girls' orphanage. They studied music. People traveled to Italy to listen to this orchestra and they performed behind like behind a screen.

And what, what many people didn't realize is that they would perform all these incredible pieces and then change instruments anyway. So he talks about range, how these girls were taught by the nuns. They were taught math, they were taught. All these other things, but they also picked up instruments, but they continued to learn all the other instruments that were around them and they became some of the best.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, and that's, that's what got me onto it. Is you, you, you said I found it easier to write when I was writing both. Yeah. Yeah. Because it gets your mind going that way. So having. Having a range of things that you're involved in can, can cross over and make you better at that. So that's range by David Epstein.

Hillary: [00:38:09] Thanks for

Kahle: [00:38:12] Thanks for listening. It's been nice 

Charity: [00:38:16] until next time. We're just a bunch of goofy writers and then we'll talk, you've enjoyed 

Everyone: [00:38:20] it. And we'll 

Charity: [00:38:22] talk to you next time.

Charity Bradford. 

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© 2019 by Charity Bradford.